Curse

Fril Estelin · Jun 10, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Have you ever watched a young child totally engrossed in a cartoon? They have had campaigns about regulating violence in children's tv programming for years. There were cases where children watched the 3 Stooges and thought it was ok to hit someone in the head with a hammer and so on. Video games are just a further progression of such media.

That's very true, but yet I've got the feeling that we develop a somewhat "healthy" relationship with tv shows due to their social status, which is more acceptable than videogames (it's changing rapidly). But the problem you point to is more general, I bet it wouldn't be considered "violence" but simple a "lack of understanding" (parents have to educate their children). Whereas for videogames, you have to be "in the game" to play it, you can't just walk next to the computer and see the game playing itself. And most of the time the game is designed so that you "feel" that you're the main character of the story/world, whereas tv shows aren't.

I've been watching the videos of Prototype for a while now, I'm very impressed, but I'm a bit annoyed by the kind of message it sends to people. Ofc, anyone with a dose of maturity will stop the identification to the main character at the limit of his "self". But young, impressionable kids (may be adults) will not. While there are quite a lot of horror/action movies which are much more violent than most videogames, they're only bought by a tiny population (we should be talking about Fight Club

). It's different for videogames, where action takes the centre stage and violence is seen as a "visually important" part of the action. If only videogames weren't designed to put the "action" at the core of the game, maybe (I'm not sure, tell me what you think) things would be different.

AmbientMelody · Jun 10, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

That's very true, but yet I've got the feeling that we develop a somewhat "healthy" relationship with tv shows due to their social status, which is more acceptable than videogames (it's changing rapidly). But the problem you point to is more general, I bet it wouldn't be considered "violence" but simple a "lack of understanding" (parents have to educate their children). Whereas for videogames, you have to be "in the game" to play it, you can't just walk next to the computer and see the game playing itself. And most of the time the game is designed so that you "feel" that you're the main character of the story/world, whereas tv shows aren't.

I've been watching the videos of Prototype for a while now, I'm very impressed, but I'm a bit annoyed by the kind of message it sends to people. Ofc, anyone with a dose of maturity will stop the identification to the main character at the limit of his "self". But young, impressionable kids (may be adults) will not. While there are quite a lot of horror/action movies which are much more violent than most videogames, they're only bought by a tiny population (we should be talking about Fight Club

). It's different for videogames, where action takes the centre stage and violence is seen as a "visually important" part of the action. If only videogames weren't designed to put the "action" at the core of the game, maybe (I'm not sure, tell me what you think) things would be different.

I think that once games will 'mature' a bit in their own way, the problem will solve by itself on the big part. I have played many games that could be considered an 'art' to say the least, not mindless violence fest. They had their own, very unique story, very good audio and visual experience in terms of locations, characters, general 'mood' following you in the game, it's own style, and a healthy dose of interactivity, to say the least. Of course I can't really imagine making from game such as Street Fighter a work of art, so there will be always different kinds of games. Games at their basis serve entertainment purpose, but it doesn't take long to understand that each game is something ... different. To the point, I think what we need right now is higher level of interactivity with your family/friends in the same room. Well, let's be honest, there is a difference between shutting off in your room and playing an mmo, having the only contact with other people by chat messages and imagined hero avatars and playing with your friends some game on the sofa in your saloon on a split screen. In the latter case you are socialising and honing your teamplay skills, in the former not really (you can't really compare shouting on someone over headset on vent channel to actually talking to him from 2 meters distance). The other thing is that most online games being labelled as addicting, well, their entire economy scheme is based around making you addicted and spending as much money and time in the game as possible, often making game unenjoyable in a competitive environment without grinding your arse for entire day or making use of paid services.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 10, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

It's different for videogames, where action takes the centre stage and violence is seen as a "visually important" part of the action. If only videogames weren't designed to put the "action" at the core of the game, maybe (I'm not sure, tell me what you think) things would be different.

The word game in itself connotates some type of action. I think video games where real lifelike characters are portrayed using violent actions against each other are more apt to be of concern.

Sniper22 · Jun 10, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

I think that they should also ban cars; cars kill people too, and I'm sure a lot more people die from car crashes than kids going crazy from video games and the lack of parenting.

BTW... I really dont see games like WoW or GW turning people into killers...

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 10, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

I think that they should also ban cars; cars kill people too, and I'm sure a lot more people die from car crashes than kids going crazy from video games and the lack of parenting.

BTW... I really dont see games like WoW or GW turning people into killers...

I don't know about that, the first Ork or Charr I see on the street might be in big trouble

Jecht Scye · Jun 10, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-top-...3554113093/p-4

Buster · Jun 11, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

And I think to myself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtPF9M3nIHs

Felicia · Jun 11, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

On slightly related news, Japan just recently decided to ban rape games.

As per june 5th, words such as “training” (調教) or “slave”, among others, are not allowed in the title or packaging.

HCG involving sexual violation cannot exceed 20% of a game’s total HCG count (ie: can’t try to build this up by having lots of everyday life CG events).

Even if it’s below 20%, anything that is promoting a criminal offense is not allowed.

Anything that promotes rape, confinement, stalking, domestic violence, and portrays it in a way that the offender gains something out of it is not allowed.

The controversy about rape games started when a game called Rapelay, which was intended and released 3 years ago for the japanese market only, was sold on the amazon marketplace and on ebay earlier this year.
As a result, Equality Now started a campaign against rape games in May and japanese politicians picked on pretty fast.

And in an emergency meeting on June, 2nd the EOCS, comperable to the american ESRB, decided to ban rape games.

Well, normal porn games are still allowed there.

Martin Kerstein · Jun 11, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

On the topic of this thread:
Discussions like this flare up in Germany every once in a while, usually driven by backbench politicians during the parliamentary summer break.
It is not a law yet but a suggestion which has to get past the German Bundestag to actually become a law.
As there are national elections in Germany later this year, I am not surprised to see this topic being brought up again.
If they would actually pass that law, it would mean that companies like Crytek would probably have to leave Germany to develop their games - and i am not sure they want to get rid of tax payers

When I grew up, Heavy Metal (and most of the time Ozzy Osbourne) was blamed for any violent act - guess he no longer is a suitable target

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 11, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

When I grew up, Heavy Metal (and most of the time Ozzy Osbourne) was blamed for any violent act - guess he no longer is a suitable target

He does do a commercial for WoW, his evil continues.

Inde · Jun 11, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Everyone, I do have to issue a warning that despite the connection and how you can't really have one without the other type of discussion, politics is not to be discussed. It derails the thread and will ultimately just lead to its closure as it's a heated topic.

I'm just going to repeat myself here from back on page 2. Please do not discuss politics, it's too volatile and personal. It will be deleted.

DreamWind · Jun 11, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Societies do not self-regulate, to the extend of going beyond the "law of the strongest". See how China tried (succeeded?) in limiting the number of hours people could play MMOs. When there's a societal problem, politicians HAVE to intervene. Rights and duties go together, for both "sides" (politicians and citizens).

As stated earlier, it depends on what your definition of a problem is. I don't see violent video games as a problem. The only people I know who consider them a problem are mothers who watch Dr Phil. Really I don't see half of the things the government gets involved in as problems, ESPECIALLY when they have much bigger problems they should be dealing with.

As for China's MMO law...they also have a law that says you can only have one kid. That doesn't make it right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

One point I've been thinking for a long while (almost since I began playing GW) is that Anet is not taking enough credit for the impact of their game on society.

Because in comparison to WoW, GW has had almost no impact. In terms of MMO society impact, I'd say Everquest started it and WoW expanded it exponentially.

Ghost Omel · Jun 11, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

As stated earlier, it depends on what your definition of a problem is. I don't see violent video games as a problem. The only people I know who consider them a problem are mothers who watch Dr Phil. Really I don't see half of the things the government gets involved in as problems, ESPECIALLY when they have much bigger problems they should be dealing with.

As for China's MMO law...they also have a law that says you can only have one kid. That doesn't make it right.

Because in comparison to WoW, GW has had almost no impact. In terms of MMO society impact, I'd say Everquest started it and WoW expanded it exponentially.

Agreed.. if all the effort that is put into disalowing violent games be put into other causes maybe some problems whould not exist at this moment.

bungusmaximus · Jun 11, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I'm just going to repeat myself here from back on page 2. Please do not discuss politics, it's too volatile and personal. It will be deleted.

Might just as well delete the entire thread then, because censorship is a human rights issue related to politics, any way you slice it, but I'll be a good kitteh and zip it. after all this is a games forum indeed ^^.

Snow Bunny · Jun 11, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

As for China's MMO law...they also have a law that says you can only have one kid. That doesn't make it right.

Ahaha, but here you've come to the crux of the problem.

They had that law because it was very necessary for the infrastructure of the state - it literally could not handle its population churning out another kid per family.

Likewise, if the Chinese believe that mmos are detrimental to the development of their kids (some good studies by the Chinese on this - persuasive data that chinese kids who play mmos do significantly worse in school) they have every right to stop it, according to their laws.

You can say violent video games are a problem, and that you'd never be influenced enough by them to go out and kill someone. This forum is a microscopic percentage of the world that plays video games - doubtless there are many who are adversely influenced by them.

Anyone else remember the Hitman Blood-Money ads? The ones that said "Shockingly Executed", or "Classically Executed", and it showed an electrocuted victim and someone with their throat cut. Hitman's target audience is supposed to look at that and think "that's awesome".

That's not awesome, and it's strange to think so. The puzzle aspect of the hitman game might be cool, the strategy needed to carry out the hit might be fun, but the actual blood splatter isn't supposed to be desirable.

The challenge of a game is supposed to be fun, the exploration aspect, the variety, the graphics, whatever. But you're beginning to enter a gray area when the violence and/or degradation is supposed to generate satisfaction. Rape games? I mean, really? Someone of you might say, "Well, that's just a pocket demographic" - so all that means is that they haven't been socially validated yet. When Doom (the original) was new it was considered odd, and only strange people played it.

Sure, a game like Guild Wars or WoW won't encourage people to "hamstorm" people to death, but games bent on realism like GTA, Hitman, Bully, etc. are successful because they allow people to simulate something they perceive as fun. It's not that the general populace will be incited to murder one another, it's that several isolated individuals might take their ingame aspirations to the real world.

Granted, Germany's motion to ban games is almost certainly a reaction against their school shooting, and time has proven that censorship loses, however long that takes. In the 1930's, the US court found Ulysses to be scandalously obscene, and now it's a hallmark of legendary literature. Yet, it's undeniable that some games (thinking Manhunt 2) encourage behavior and thought that's undeniably strange.

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 11, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicia

On slightly related news, Japan just recently decided to ban rape games.

Silly japan. First they censor cocks in hentai that has a LOT more stuff to worry about than seeing a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO. Now they're trying to block off games of which they're virtually the sole producer.

MrTickle · Jun 11, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

I think that they should also ban cars; cars kill people too...

My car is parked on my drive so i hope it doesn't drive itself while i go to sleep. It is red like Christine tho

Ghost Omel · Jun 11, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

While what you saying about...games effecting the way children think..but only up to a point...there must be a spark that lights that.."Ima take a gun and shoot that mot*******er in the head).. Even the spark alone cannot cause that...Mental instability coupled with personal history or fanatic thinking regarding what ever influence that as well.. games if anythign help them take it out on a virtuall being. This good

Lets take examples of a Video games with violance that are good (in my opinion)

Kung Fu Panda..Violance and yet you are adorable HERO..that saves the village

Halo.. You are a hero saving the world from aliens..NOT A MURDERER

GW,WoW,LoTR,etc etc etc...your a hero once more

Even Modern War Fare and WW2 games protray you as a hero.

Now on the oposite spectrum we have these games like GtA- Your a thug,Mafiosy,Murderer,Gang Member etc NOW these games can cause spark in the weak minded/distressed/closed up people to rage out.. and do those things....

Once again its all about the mental stability of a gamer...NOT GENERALIZATion....

I have been a gamer since 8 years of age...My first Violent game was Project IGI, Folowed by Blade of Darkness... the most bludiest game of all.....I havent killed Any 1..killed couple of pigeons though....but in no way went out to shoot the bully couse he didnt give me back my pen -_-

Artemis Elune · Jun 11, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taixen

This is amazing, I mean, I can't seem to think of any violent people in German history before Video Games were around.

LMFAO

on a srs note, this is quite stupid. you can't put all the blame on the games...

AmbientMelody · Jun 11, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I'm just going to repeat myself here from back on page 2. Please do not discuss politics, it's too volatile and personal. It will be deleted.

No offense Inde, but the topic is related to 'violent games to be (possibly) banned in Germany', not 'violent games and their influence on society'. Sure, the latter is pretty much included in the former, because the former is a WIDER AREA of the topic itself. How are we supposed to possibly discuss ANYTHING about this topic without understanding and giving examples of e.g. how politics work in the Germany and/or other countries concerning this issue? Seriously, what's the point? Close the topic already then. I can take the blows from others if you do so, couldn't care less.